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| Guest |
 Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 1:33 am |
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Guest
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Hi,
I would like to release ErlyWeb 0.7 based on the code that's in trunk
now, maybe with a few extra tweaks and fixes. I don't know of any
outstanding bugs that still need to be fixed, so please let me know if
you find any.
Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
Thanks,
Yariv
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 4:43 am |
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User
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
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> Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
* Database migrations
* Plugin support
Rails has the ability to plug in an entire login system, or OpenID
system, or forum system, into your app all at once, by installing it
and setting up the hooks. This would make it easier to write this
code once. I'm not a heavy user of Rails, so I don't know how this
works.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 6:25 am |
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Guest
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Here are some ideas:
* Flexible routes
* Standardized script interface (for migrations, generators/templates,
tests, maintenance tasks )
I know a bit about Rails plugins...the main benefit is providing a
standard way for people to share functionality in the vein of
"convention over configuration".
Plugins are created with "script/generate plugin my_widget", which
creates a default plugin structure under vendor/plugins/my_widget.
Plugins have standard hooks like install.rb which is run when the
plugin is installed, and init.rb which is run when the plugin is
initialized.
A plugin's lib/ is automatically added to the include path, tasks/ are
automatically added to rake's include path, and test/ is added to the
test suite.
Plugins are stored in svn and you can install third party plugins with
"script/plugin install http://site.com/my_widget" which does an svn
checkout to your app's vendor/plugins directory.
Plugins are good for quick code sharing where someone publishes a blog
post explaining their new plugin, and you can easily install and
evaluate it.
The downside of plugins is that most are generally unversioned, and
most developers serve plugins directly from trunk/ so it is hard to
track dependencies, compatibility, and updates.
The Merb framework which attempts the be Rails only faster and better
uses ruby gems (gems are ruby packages) for plugins which provides for
versioning an dependencies.
For Erlyweb, instead of creating a one-off plugin system like Rails,
it might be better to use a package system to handle dependencies and
provide versioning.
Robin
On Dec 1, 8:42 pm, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> > think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
>
> * Database migrations
>
> * Plugin support
>
> Rails has the ability to plug in an entire login system, or OpenID
> system, or forum system, into your app all at once, by installing it
> and setting up the hooks. This would make it easier to write this
> code once. I'm not a heavy user of Rails, so I don't know how this
> works.
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:20 am |
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User
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
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> Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
* Database migrations
* Plugin support
Rails has the ability to plug in an entire login system, or OpenID
system, or forum system, into your app all at once, by installing it
and setting up the hooks. This would make it easier to write this code
once. I'm not a heavy user of Rails, so I don't know how this works.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 8:55 pm |
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Guest
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Hi there,
I am new to erlang and erlyweb, so I can |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:28 pm |
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Guest
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Hi,
Thanks for the suggestions! I think this highlights the need to turn
the erlyweb.org website into a wiki, where people can add their own
tutorials, howtos, etc. The API documentation will probably have to
remain in the same format because it's generated from the source code,
but everything else can be wikified (I just made up that word  ).
Can anyone recommend a wiki software? I have seen some projects use
dokuwiki (http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki). Any other
suggestions?
Yariv
On Dec 2, 2007 12:54 PM, maddiin <maddiin@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi there,
>
> I am new to erlang and erlyweb, so I can |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:33 pm |
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Guest
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On Dec 1, 2007 8:42 PM, David King <dking@ketralnis.com> wrote:
>
> > Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> > think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
>
> * Database migrations
+1
>
> * Plugin support
>
> Rails has the ability to plug in an entire login system, or OpenID
> system, or forum system, into your app all at once, by installing it
> and setting up the hooks. This would make it easier to write this
> code once. I'm not a heavy user of Rails, so I don't know how this
> works.
Sounds interesting. ErlyWeb components are designed to be "drag and
droppable" between applications. It shouldn't be that hard to add some
installation hooks. The question is, do many Rails developers use
plugins? I usually find that pre-made components don't quite fit my
application and it's easier to write them from scratch than to figure
out how to customize them for my app. Am I off track?
Yariv
>
> >
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 9:47 pm |
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Guest
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On Dec 1, 2007 10:24 PM, Robin <robi123@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Here are some ideas:
>
> * Flexible routes
What do flexible routes do exactly? I know that Rails has some routes
config file, but ErlyWeb gives you full control -- in Erlang -- over
how requests are routed using the app controller. You also have the
before_call controller hook. Is there anything missing?
> * Standardized script interface (for migrations, generators/templates,
> tests, maintenance tasks )
I'm open to suggestions here.
>
> I know a bit about Rails plugins...the main benefit is providing a
> standard way for people to share functionality in the vein of
> "convention over configuration".
>
> Plugins are created with "script/generate plugin my_widget", which
> creates a default plugin structure under vendor/plugins/my_widget.
>
> Plugins have standard hooks like install.rb which is run when the
> plugin is installed, and init.rb which is run when the plugin is
> initialized.
>
> A plugin's lib/ is automatically added to the include path, tasks/ are
> automatically added to rake's include path, and test/ is added to the
> test suite.
>
> Plugins are stored in svn and you can install third party plugins with
> "script/plugin install http://site.com/my_widget" which does an svn
> checkout to your app's vendor/plugins directory.
>
> Plugins are good for quick code sharing where someone publishes a blog
> post explaining their new plugin, and you can easily install and
> evaluate it.
>
> The downside of plugins is that most are generally unversioned, and
> most developers serve plugins directly from trunk/ so it is hard to
> track dependencies, compatibility, and updates.
>
> The Merb framework which attempts the be Rails only faster and better
> uses ruby gems (gems are ruby packages) for plugins which provides for
> versioning an dependencies.
>
>
> For Erlyweb, instead of creating a one-off plugin system like Rails,
> it might be better to use a package system to handle dependencies and
> provide versioning.
These sound like good features. I guess the only "plugin" ErlyWeb
currently has is the erlang2facebook library, which you have to
install manually in your app directory (which is pretty easy,
actually). I think a fully fledged plugin system would be useful if
people started creating more and more such addons and maintenance
became a problem, but I'm not seeing a lot of other addons being
developed so a full plugin system may not be needed right now. That
said, if more people start creating such addons I'll be happy to make
their integration easier in ErlyWeb.
Also, don't some plugins rely on migration support to modify the
schema on installation?
Thanks,
Yariv
>
> Robin
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 1, 8:42 pm, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > > Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> > > think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
> >
> > * Database migrations
> >
> > * Plugin support
> >
> > Rails has the ability to plug in an entire login system, or OpenID
> > system, or forum system, into your app all at once, by installing it
> > and setting up the hooks. This would make it easier to write this
> > code once. I'm not a heavy user of Rails, so I don't know how this
> > works.
> >
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:26 pm |
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Guest
|
Hi Yariv,
a wiki with user generated tutorials and howtos would be a good thing,
although I see spam might be an annoying problem. To be honest, in
first place I want to see an erlyweb powered website on erlyweb.org,
maybe structured with the frontpage describing the features, a
downloads section, official tutorials(very important), the api
documentation and as a bonus the wiki. I could only help with
webdesign for now, so the basic work would be up to you and others. 
> > Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> > think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
What do you think of an autogenerated admin interface and basic
authentication?
> >It would be even nicer, if there was an #erlyweb channel on freenode..
I just jumped in this channel and hope to see you guys there.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 10:58 pm |
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Guest
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On Dec 2, 1:46 pm, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Dec 1, 2007 10:24 PM, Robin <robi...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Here are some ideas:
>
> > * Flexible routes
>
> What do flexible routes do exactly? I know that Rails has some routes
> config file, but ErlyWeb gives you full control -- in Erlang -- over
> how requests are routed using the app controller. You also have the
> before_call controller hook. Is there anything missing?
Rails uses a DSL for mapping routes to controllers,actions, and
params, so you can concisely make clean and hackable urls like /posts/
2007/12/02, /posts/tag/holiday, and REST resources. The basic idea is
to provide more structure, so that everyone does not have to implement
their own custom route system.
>
> > * Standardized script interface (for migrations, generators/templates,
> > tests, maintenance tasks )
>
> I'm open to suggestions here.
>
>
Currently, erlyweb uses erlang for scripting tasks like generators
etc, but maybe doing the scripting with a scripting language would be
a better fit.
>
>
>
> > I know a bit about Rails plugins...the main benefit is providing a
> > standard way for people to share functionality in the vein of
> > "convention over configuration".
>
> > Plugins are created with "script/generate plugin my_widget", which
> > creates a default plugin structure under vendor/plugins/my_widget.
>
> > Plugins have standard hooks like install.rb which is run when the
> > plugin is installed, and init.rb which is run when the plugin is
> > initialized.
>
> > A plugin's lib/ is automatically added to the include path, tasks/ are
> > automatically added to rake's include path, and test/ is added to the
> > test suite.
>
> > Plugins are stored in svn and you can install third party plugins with
> > "script/plugin installhttp://site.com/my_widget" which does an svn
> > checkout to your app's vendor/plugins directory.
>
> > Plugins are good for quick code sharing where someone publishes a blog
> > post explaining their new plugin, and you can easily install and
> > evaluate it.
>
> > The downside of plugins is that most are generally unversioned, and
> > most developers serve plugins directly from trunk/ so it is hard to
> > track dependencies, compatibility, and updates.
>
> > The Merb framework which attempts the be Rails only faster and better
> > uses ruby gems (gems are ruby packages) for plugins which provides for
> > versioning an dependencies.
>
> > For Erlyweb, instead of creating a one-off plugin system like Rails,
> > it might be better to use a package system to handle dependencies and
> > provide versioning.
>
> These sound like good features. I guess the only "plugin" ErlyWeb
> currently has is the erlang2facebook library, which you have to
> install manually in your app directory (which is pretty easy,
> actually). I think a fully fledged plugin system would be useful if
> people started creating more and more such addons and maintenance
> became a problem, but I'm not seeing a lot of other addons being
> developed so a full plugin system may not be needed right now. That
> said, if more people start creating such addons I'll be happy to make
> their integration easier in ErlyWeb.
>
> Also, don't some plugins rely on migration support to modify the
> schema on installation?
Plugins do not migrate or modify the schema directly. Plugins often
provide generators that the developer uses to generate migration
files. The developer then does a "rake db:migrate" to actually apply
any new migrations.
Components are vertical slices of functionality. Plugins should also
add horizontal slices of functionality, but that is harder to
accomplish with a compiled language. I think Smerl could be used to
cleverly add horizontal functionality via plugins, but they key is
having a standard ized way for smerl to mixin behavior into existing
modules.
Maybe plugins are a chicken and egg problem...the reason no body
creates libs for erlyweb is because there is no standard way to share
such libs. Perhaps a standard plugin structure would encourage folks
to share their libs, and lead to a proliferation of contribution.
Rails gradually got bigger and bigger up to version 1.2.x, and the
soon to be released Rails 2.0 does not add much new functionality,
instead it pulled all the non-vital stuff out to plugins. Therefore,
the core can remain small, and features can be added with plugins.
>
> Thanks,
> Yariv
>
>
>
> > Robin
>
> > On Dec 1, 8:42 pm, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > > > Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> > > > think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
>
> > > * Database migrations
>
> > > * Plugin support
>
> > > Rails has the ability to plug in an entire login system, or OpenID
> > > system, or forum system, into your app all at once, by installing it
> > > and setting up the hooks. This would make it easier to write this
> > > code once. I'm not a heavy user of Rails, so I don't know how this
> > > works.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sun Dec 02, 2007 11:51 pm |
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Guest
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Yariv Sadan wrote:
> Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
>
1) Steal a couple of ideas/features from seaside ( http://seaside.st/ ).
Such as, and this is mostly from memory, session management that handle
* forking of page state due to opening a new window
* forward and back broswer buttons roll the session state forward and
back along with the window display.
To see why this could be important take a look at one of the shopping
cart/e-commerce demos which I can't seem to locate at the moment. so try
the examples from http://seaside.st/about/examples Having not looked at
seaside for a while the Halos don't look like a bad idea either.
2) Better distribution support out of the box. One of the things which
Erlang makes easier is distributing an app or set of apps across
multiple node yet erlyweb doesn't take advantage of this to date. What I
specifically interested in is redundancy so that should one server fail
for whatever reason the user will not notice, but this could equally
apply to load balancing. There are ways of doing this with linux-HA,
etc, but I think this is something better handled by the webserver
directly for various reasons. Parts of this may be better done as a
spin-off project.
Jeff.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:33 am |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 2:10 am |
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nintendo wrote:
> I am also for web services, especially REST support.
>
Whoops. Knew I forgot something. I second this. I don't think this would
be too hard - someone correct me if I'm wrong. Erlyweb would only need
to have a couple of new HTTP methods added on top of the GET/POST
already supported which mean doing something like
case yaws_arg:method(A) of
'POST' -> do_something1;
'GET' -> do_something2;
'PUT' -> do_something3;
'DELETE' -> do_something4;
_ -> oops
end
in your app_controller or where ever you needed to differentiate between
the methods. Now, I haven't been playing with erlyweb of late so the
foregoing is most likely wrong-ish at best.
Jeff.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Mon Dec 03, 2007 1:21 pm |
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On Dec 2, 9:27 pm, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a wiki software? I have seen some projects use
> dokuwiki (http://wiki.splitbrain.org/wiki:dokuwiki). Any other
> suggestions?
>
Doesn't Google code have a built in wiki?
Also I believe JotSpot functionality may be added to Google web apps
next year and could also be used at some point.
regards
Al
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 5:14 am |
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Guest
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Hi Maddiin,
>
> a wiki with user generated tutorials and howtos would be a good thing,
> although I see spam might be an annoying problem. To be honest, in
> first place I want to see an erlyweb powered website on erlyweb.org,
> maybe structured with the frontpage describing the features, a
> downloads section, official tutorials(very important), the api
> documentation and as a bonus the wiki. I could only help with
> webdesign for now, so the basic work would be up to you and others.
If somebody wanted to create an open source wiki system using ErlyWeb,
I'll be happy to use it. Unfortunately, I don't have much time to
devote to such a project right now. If nobody wants to take on this
project, I'd rather use a PHP based one. That said, I agree that an
open source project that uses ErlyWeb would be great for educational
purposes.
If you would like to volunteer to redesign the website, that would be
very good too. I designed it in about 15 minutes and I think it shows
>
> > > Also, we should start planning the next release. What features do you
> > > think will be most useful (web services support is on the list)?
>
> What do you think of an autogenerated admin interface and basic
> authentication?
That would be useful -- it would be especially neat of these features
were implemented as installable plugins.
Yariv
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