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| Guest |
 Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:24 am |
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Guest
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Picking up the message from Yariv in the ErlyWeb 0.7 topic:
> If somebody wanted to create an open source wiki system using ErlyWeb,
> I'll be happy to use it. Unfortunately, I don't have much time to
> devote to such a project right now. If nobody wants to take on this
> project, I'd rather use a PHP based one. That said, I agree that an
> open source project that uses ErlyWeb would be great for educational
> purposes.
If you get away from the idea of a wiki, we (my brother and me) would
like to contribute with an erlyweb powered website for erlyweb.org.
Assumed that you help us a little bit doing it.
What we are thinking of instead of a wiki is building a tutorials
section using ReST-documents pulled off a control versioning system,
might it be git, mercurial or svn.
This way no accounts are needed and everyone could contribute on the
mailing list. The last word would be up to Yariv leading the way, so
it would be something official. Also spam and moderating in general
would be less time consuming.
Picking up my idea for a planetlike thing:
Its more natural that people blog about what they did rather than
putting the content on a wiki somewhere else, so I think aggregating
rssfeeds from erlyweb-users would be great, knowing who uses erlyweb
and what people using erlyweb do besides.
Putting it together the page could have these sections:
- frontpage describing features and announcing latest changes
- downloads
- documentation
- planet/community-posts
How do you think about this? Any complaints or suggestions?
> If you would like to volunteer to redesign the website, that would be
> very good too. I designed it in about 15 minutes and I think it shows
> 
I hope you like it: http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/6794/erlyweb2wu4.png
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 12:30 am |
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maddiin wrote:
> This way no accounts are needed and everyone could contribute on the
> mailing list. The last word would be up to Yariv leading the way, so
> it would be something official. Also spam and moderating in general
> would be less time consuming.
Could you elaborate on this (no accounts)?
Jeff.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 5:17 pm |
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I think a redesign definitely is in order -- also, maybe consider
renaming the project? I've never liked the name erlyweb, it just
sounds kind of gross. Unfortunately aesthetics is definitely
something people take into consideration when discovering new things.
Although it might not be important to a lot of us, just look at rails,
django, spring, etc. Nicer looking websites, better sounding names.
Just a thought.
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:12 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
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> I think a redesign definitely is in order -- also, maybe consider
> renaming the project? I've never liked the name erlyweb, it just
> sounds kind of gross. Unfortunately aesthetics is definitely
> something people take into consideration when discovering new things.
> Although it might not be important to a lot of us, just look at rails,
> django, spring, etc. Nicer looking websites, better sounding names.
> Just a thought.
The name is fine; it's an erlang web framework, and that's clear from
the name.
If you totally rewrote and renamed it, it wouldn't be erlyweb anyway,
so feel free to do so, choice in the web framework area is always
good. But please leave erlyweb alone.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:30 pm |
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Guest
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Well not a redesign of the framework -- that'd be a pretty stupid
thing to say. I meant a redesign of erlyweb.org as was mentioned
earlier. As for the name, it doesn't necessarily need to tell you
what the project is about, does it? I just think a more appealing
name would help on the marketing end, which is a crucial part of
anything if it is to be successful.
On Dec 6, 1:11 pm, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > I think a redesign definitely is in order -- also, maybe consider
> > renaming the project? I've never liked the name erlyweb, it just
> > sounds kind of gross. Unfortunately aesthetics is definitely
> > something people take into consideration when discovering new things.
> > Although it might not be important to a lot of us, just look at rails,
> > django, spring, etc. Nicer looking websites, better sounding names.
> > Just a thought.
>
> The name is fine; it's an erlang web framework, and that's clear from
> the name.
>
> If you totally rewrote and renamed it, it wouldn't be erlyweb anyway,
> so feel free to do so, choice in the web framework area is always
> good. But please leave erlyweb alone.
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 6:34 pm |
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> I just think a more appealing name would help on
> the marketing end, which is a crucial part of
> anything if it is to be successful.
Only if success is measured in terms of popularity
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2007 7:54 pm |
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On 6 Dez., 01:30, jm <je...@ghostgun.com> wrote:
> maddiin wrote:
> > This way no accounts are needed and everyone could contribute on the
> > mailing list. The last word would be up to Yariv leading the way, so
> > it would be something official. Also spam and moderating in general
> > would be less time consuming.
>
> Could you elaborate on this (no accounts)?
>
> Jeff.
I'll do, as I am his brother.
A free-for-all wiki will soon end up in maintenance hell, or otherwise
with
lovely spam of all sorts. Forcing registration here would be a not-so-
cool
solution to this problem.
I had the idea to use the same development model which is used for
erlware's
code base.
For more information on that one, read the section "The Development
Model"
under: http://erlangish.blogspot.com/2007/10/erlware-and-git-development-model.html
In short: Contributors clone the documentation-repo, make local
changes until they're
happy and then send a patch to a separate erlyweb-docs-mailinglist.
I'd like to give some more info on what maddiin wrote here:
> What we are thinking of instead of a wiki is building a tutorials
> section using ReST-documents pulled off a control versioning system,
> might it be git, mercurial or svn.
Take a look at the docs of the djangoproject, where they use such an
approach.
Here's an example:
http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/cache/
This is the corresponding source code of this piece of documentation
(written in restructured text):
http://code.djangoproject.com/svn/django/trunk/docs/cache.txt
And here's the code they use for building web pages from the source
code:
http://code.djangoproject.com/svn/djangoproject.com/django_website/apps/docs/
Kind Regards,
Chris
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 5:29 am |
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Chris C. wrote:
> I'll do, as I am his brother.
> A free-for-all wiki will soon end up in maintenance hell, or otherwise
> with
> lovely spam of all sorts. Forcing registration here would be a not-so-
> cool
> solution to this problem.
>
I think I'm with you. You make modifications in a sandpit or on your own
machine then submit the delta/patch to a maintainer who okays the change
to the central site. The maintainer could be responsible for the whole
site or just a subsection.
As to the templating language in would be nice to have a default that
could be used with erlyweb which didn't give access erlang wholesale.
I'm referring to the type general public could be give access.
Slight change of topic another idea: forum software.
Jeff.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:34 am |
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Guest
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>
> If you get away from the idea of a wiki, we (my brother and me) would
> like to contribute with an erlyweb powered website for erlyweb.org.
> Assumed that you help us a little bit doing it.
>
> What we are thinking of instead of a wiki is building a tutorials
> section using ReST-documents pulled off a control versioning system,
> might it be git, mercurial or svn.
>
> This way no accounts are needed and everyone could contribute on the
> mailing list. The last word would be up to Yariv leading the way, so
> it would be something official. Also spam and moderating in general
> would be less time consuming.
I like the idea of using a source repository, but are you suggesting
it would be the same repository as the ErlyWeb one or a different one?
Putting everything in the same repository would require syncing up the
documentation materials with the release versions, which could a good
or bad, depending on how you look at it.
>
> Picking up my idea for a planetlike thing:
>
> Its more natural that people blog about what they did rather than
> putting the content on a wiki somewhere else, so I think aggregating
> rssfeeds from erlyweb-users would be great, knowing who uses erlyweb
> and what people using erlyweb do besides.
>
> Putting it together the page could have these sections:
>
> - frontpage describing features and announcing latest changes
> - downloads
> - documentation
> - planet/community-posts
>
> How do you think about this? Any complaints or suggestions?
I'm thinking the web site maybe should also include an official blog
where ErlyWeb announcements would be made and which could be consumed
by RSS. As ErlyWeb matures, I probably shouldn't be blogging about it
just on my personal blog.
>
>
> > If you would like to volunteer to redesign the website, that would be
> > very good too. I designed it in about 15 minutes and I think it shows
> >
>
> I hope you like it: http://img457.imageshack.us/img457/6794/erlyweb2wu4.png
Thanks for taking the time to create this design. I think it's a step
in the right direction, but it needs some work. Visitors to the site
probably are mostly interested in the documentation, downloads, and
latest announcements, so those sections should be quite prominent. The
documentation link especially is hard to find. I think the features
list is important, especially for newcomers, but it shouldn't occupy
most of the visible real estate because once you read it, it's not
interesting anymore when you come back to the site.
About the aesthetics -- I'm not too crazy about the red color scheme.
I prefer cool colors (blue, green, grey) that are more soothing. I
think the logo should be written as 'ErlyWeb,' not 'erlyweb'. I would
change the 'simple, elegant, amazing' maybre to something like
'simple, elegant, powerful', but I would have to think about it more.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
Cheers,
Yariv
>
> >
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:35 am |
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It's funny, most people I've spoken to have liked the name 'ErlyWeb.'
You're the first person to have expressed such strong dislike for it.
Does anyone else on the list think ErlyWeb should be renamed?
If you come up with a better name, let me know. Otherwise, I think
I'll stick with 'ErlyWeb''.
Btw, on the topic of problematic names, I think Yaws takes the crown.
Google it and you'll see what I mean
Yariv
On Dec 6, 2007 10:29 AM, dehlan <dehlan@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Well not a redesign of the framework -- that'd be a pretty stupid
> thing to say. I meant a redesign of erlyweb.org as was mentioned
> earlier. As for the name, it doesn't necessarily need to tell you
> what the project is about, does it? I just think a more appealing
> name would help on the marketing end, which is a crucial part of
> anything if it is to be successful.
>
>
> On Dec 6, 1:11 pm, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > > I think a redesign definitely is in order -- also, maybe consider
> > > renaming the project? I've never liked the name erlyweb, it just
> > > sounds kind of gross. Unfortunately aesthetics is definitely
> > > something people take into consideration when discovering new things.
> > > Although it might not be important to a lot of us, just look at rails,
> > > django, spring, etc. Nicer looking websites, better sounding names.
> > > Just a thought.
> >
> > The name is fine; it's an erlang web framework, and that's clear from
> > the name.
> >
> > If you totally rewrote and renamed it, it wouldn't be erlyweb anyway,
> > so feel free to do so, choice in the web framework area is always
> > good. But please leave erlyweb alone.
> >
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:42 am |
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Guest
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On Dec 6, 2007 11:53 AM, Chris C. <christian.czura@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 6 Dez., 01:30, jm <je...@ghostgun.com> wrote:
> > maddiin wrote:
> > > This way no accounts are needed and everyone could contribute on the
> > > mailing list. The last word would be up to Yariv leading the way, so
> > > it would be something official. Also spam and moderating in general
> > > would be less time consuming.
> >
> > Could you elaborate on this (no accounts)?
> >
> > Jeff.
>
> I'll do, as I am his brother.
> A free-for-all wiki will soon end up in maintenance hell, or otherwise
> with
> lovely spam of all sorts. Forcing registration here would be a not-so-
> cool
> solution to this problem.
>
> I had the idea to use the same development model which is used for
> erlware's
> code base.
> For more information on that one, read the section "The Development
> Model"
> under: http://erlangish.blogspot.com/2007/10/erlware-and-git-development-model.html
> In short: Contributors clone the documentation-repo, make local
> changes until they're
> happy and then send a patch to a separate erlyweb-docs-mailinglist.
>
> I'd like to give some more info on what maddiin wrote here:
> > What we are thinking of instead of a wiki is building a tutorials
> > section using ReST-documents pulled off a control versioning system,
> > might it be git, mercurial or svn.
>
> Take a look at the docs of the djangoproject, where they use such an
> approach.
> Here's an example:
> http://www.djangoproject.com/documentation/cache/
>
> This is the corresponding source code of this piece of documentation
> (written in restructured text):
> http://code.djangoproject.com/svn/django/trunk/docs/cache.txt
>
> And here's the code they use for building web pages from the source
> code:
> http://code.djangoproject.com/svn/djangoproject.com/django_website/apps/docs/
>
> Kind Regards,
> Chris
So patches would be sent to the mailing list, and merged into the
documentation repository from which the documentation would be
generated?
I think this is a good idea in principle. My only concern is that the
current documentation is embedded in the source code, so this new
system could be used for new tutorials but I don't know if it will
work for the bulk of the docs.
Btw I don't mind giving svn access to anyone who wants to improve the
API docs -- just send me your proposed revisions first just so I can
make sure they look good.
Yariv
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:15 pm |
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Guest
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For what it's worth, I think Erlyweb is a great name, and should stay
as it is
On Dec 7, 12:34 pm, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> It's funny, most people I've spoken to have liked the name 'ErlyWeb.'
> You're the first person to have expressed such strong dislike for it.
>
> Does anyone else on the list think ErlyWeb should be renamed?
>
> If you come up with a better name, let me know. Otherwise, I think
> I'll stick with 'ErlyWeb''.
>
> Btw, on the topic of problematic names, I think Yaws takes the crown.
> Google it and you'll see what I mean
>
> Yariv
>
> On Dec 6, 2007 10:29 AM, dehlan <deh...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Well not a redesign of the framework -- that'd be a pretty stupid
> > thing to say. I meant a redesign of erlyweb.org as was mentioned
> > earlier. As for the name, it doesn't necessarily need to tell you
> > what the project is about, does it? I just think a more appealing
> > name would help on the marketing end, which is a crucial part of
> > anything if it is to be successful.
>
> > On Dec 6, 1:11 pm, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > > > I think a redesign definitely is in order -- also, maybe consider
> > > > renaming the project? I've never liked the name erlyweb, it just
> > > > sounds kind of gross. Unfortunately aesthetics is definitely
> > > > something people take into consideration when discovering new things.
> > > > Although it might not be important to a lot of us, just look at rails,
> > > > django, spring, etc. Nicer looking websites, better sounding names.
> > > > Just a thought.
>
> > > The name is fine; it's an erlang web framework, and that's clear from
> > > the name.
>
> > > If you totally rewrote and renamed it, it wouldn't be erlyweb anyway,
> > > so feel free to do so, choice in the web framework area is always
> > > good. But please leave erlyweb alone.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:41 pm |
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On Dec 7, 2007 9:15 AM, Ghalib Suleiman <cowmoo@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> For what it's worth, I think Erlyweb is a great name, and should stay
> as it is
>
> On Dec 7, 12:34 pm, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > It's funny, most people I've spoken to have liked the name 'ErlyWeb.'
> > You're the first person to have expressed such strong dislike for it.
I'm fine with the name, but I'd vote for more beginner documentation
before any other changes. (And I mean BEGINNER ... right from the
initial install)
I did like the suggested site redesign layout, but I agree with using
a less harsh colour than red.
Simon
--
simonpeter.org | simonpeter.com | newlife-upc.org
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:58 pm |
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Guest
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In much the same way that the Java community has jEverything, I see
erl* names being a common pattern. I'm not much in favor of that as a
whole. It could just as easily be "gazelle" or whatever. That said, I
don't think it's a big deal either way.
On Dec 7, 2007 8:40 AM, Simon Chappell <simonpeterchappell@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Dec 7, 2007 9:15 AM, Ghalib Suleiman <cowmoo@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > For what it's worth, I think Erlyweb is a great name, and should stay
> > as it is
> >
> > On Dec 7, 12:34 pm, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > It's funny, most people I've spoken to have liked the name 'ErlyWeb.'
> > > You're the first person to have expressed such strong dislike for it.
>
> I'm fine with the name, but I'd vote for more beginner documentation
> before any other changes. (And I mean BEGINNER ... right from the
> initial install)
>
> I did like the suggested site redesign layout, but I agree with using
> a less harsh colour than red.
>
> Simon
>
> --
> simonpeter.org | simonpeter.com | newlife-upc.org
>
>
> >
>
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| dmitriid |
| Posted: Fri Dec 07, 2007 4:33 pm |
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User
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 213
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> About the aesthetics -- I'm not too crazy about the red color scheme.
> I prefer cool colors (blue, green, grey) that are more soothing.
Besides, red is taken over by Ruby on Rails
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