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| Guest |
 Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 6:20 am |
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Guest
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This isn't a critic of erlyweb, but rather a laundry list of things
that I need to be able to "easily" do in order to port my app from
Rails to erlyweb.
1 - full text search. I have some recent experience with Sphinx
http://www.sphinxsearch.com/. Sphinx is a good match for erlang since
it runs as a nice stand-alone daemon and doesn't require the weight of
installing a Java system like Lucene requires. Rails has good plug-
ins and tutorials for using Sphinx. Erlang / erlyweb has nothing.
2 - PayPal or Amazon or Google Payment. An erlang library for _any_
payment gateway is needed.
3 - Current tutorials. The API docs on erlyweb are ok, but we need
real-world tutorials using the latest erlyweb.
There are lots of little things, like good date and time pretty
printing. Ruby does have tons of libraries. We need to identify the
most needed ones for webapp dev.
Anything I'm missing?
I'm not trying to create an open ended rant...but if I am to port what
I have in Rails to erlang, I need a few missing parts.
Jon
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:05 am |
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Thanks for sharing your ideas. I'll be the first person to admit that
ErlyWeb is far from mature and that it's lacking some of the tools
that exist from other frameworks, and I'm happy to hear people
pointing out real needs that ErlyWeb doesn't currently satisfy --
without constructive criticism improvement will be much slower. The
extensions you describe are usually done best when they are developed
out of a real need and I hope other developers will contribute some of
them as they run into missing features during their app development.
Regarding tutorials/examples, I'm happy to see some members of the
community stepping up and trying to contribute in this area, and also
asking specific questions about areas that are unclear from just
reading the documentation. I hope to add my own contribution in this
area but don't expect too much during the next couple of weeks due to
holidays.
Cheers,
Yariv
On Dec 20, 2007 10:19 PM, Jon Hancock <redstarling@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> This isn't a critic of erlyweb, but rather a laundry list of things
> that I need to be able to "easily" do in order to port my app from
> Rails to erlyweb.
>
> 1 - full text search. I have some recent experience with Sphinx
> http://www.sphinxsearch.com/. Sphinx is a good match for erlang since
> it runs as a nice stand-alone daemon and doesn't require the weight of
> installing a Java system like Lucene requires. Rails has good plug-
> ins and tutorials for using Sphinx. Erlang / erlyweb has nothing.
>
> 2 - PayPal or Amazon or Google Payment. An erlang library for _any_
> payment gateway is needed.
>
> 3 - Current tutorials. The API docs on erlyweb are ok, but we need
> real-world tutorials using the latest erlyweb.
>
> There are lots of little things, like good date and time pretty
> printing. Ruby does have tons of libraries. We need to identify the
> most needed ones for webapp dev.
>
> Anything I'm missing?
> I'm not trying to create an open ended rant...but if I am to port what
> I have in Rails to erlang, I need a few missing parts.
>
> Jon
> >
>
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| dmitriid |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:27 am |
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 213
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Jon Hancock wrote:
> This isn't a critic of erlyweb, but rather a laundry list of things
> that I need to be able to "easily" do in order to port my app from
> Rails to erlyweb.
I don't know what the status is on ErlyWeb 0.7, but I would really
really really love to see a config directory (a la Rails') where all the
necessary site configuration could be placed (database connectivity,
environment, production/testing/debug, routes - oh I'd love a routes
configuration)
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 8:47 am |
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Guest
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I'm very happy to see elryweb as mature as it is. Some refreshed
tutorials on the soon to be released v0.7, may be just what is needed.
If I end up writing any of the "missing pieces", I'll be sure to
publish them.
thanks, Jon
On Dec 21, 3:05 pm, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Thanks for sharing your ideas. I'll be the first person to admit that
> ErlyWeb is far from mature and that it's lacking some of the tools
> that exist from other frameworks, and I'm happy to hear people
> pointing out real needs that ErlyWeb doesn't currently satisfy --
> without constructive criticism improvement will be much slower. The
> extensions you describe are usually done best when they are developed
> out of a real need and I hope other developers will contribute some of
> them as they run into missing features during their app development.
>
> Regarding tutorials/examples, I'm happy to see some members of the
> community stepping up and trying to contribute in this area, and also
> asking specific questions about areas that are unclear from just
> reading the documentation. I hope to add my own contribution in this
> area but don't expect too much during the next couple of weeks due to
> holidays.
>
> Cheers,
> Yariv
>
> On Dec 20, 2007 10:19 PM, Jon Hancock <redstarl...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > This isn't a critic of erlyweb, but rather a laundry list of things
> > that I need to be able to "easily" do in order to port my app from
> > Rails to erlyweb.
>
> > 1 - full text search. I have some recent experience with Sphinx
> >http://www.sphinxsearch.com/. Sphinx is a good match for erlang since
> > it runs as a nice stand-alone daemon and doesn't require the weight of
> > installing a Java system like Lucene requires. Rails has good plug-
> > ins and tutorials for using Sphinx. Erlang / erlyweb has nothing.
>
> > 2 - PayPal or Amazon or Google Payment. An erlang library for _any_
> > payment gateway is needed.
>
> > 3 - Current tutorials. The API docs on erlyweb are ok, but we need
> > real-world tutorials using the latest erlyweb.
>
> > There are lots of little things, like good date and time pretty
> > printing. Ruby does have tons of libraries. We need to identify the
> > most needed ones for webapp dev.
>
> > Anything I'm missing?
> > I'm not trying to create an open ended rant...but if I am to port what
> > I have in Rails to erlang, I need a few missing parts.
>
> > Jon
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 9:50 am |
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2007/12/21, Jon Hancock <redstarling@gmail.com>:
>
> 1 - full text search. I have some recent experience with Sphinx
> http://www.sphinxsearch.com/. Sphinx is a good match for erlang since
> it runs as a nice stand-alone daemon and doesn't require the weight of
> installing a Java system like Lucene requires. Rails has good plug-
> ins and tutorials for using Sphinx. Erlang / erlyweb has nothing.
For someone interested in exploring this, I can recommend some
modules from the rdbms contrib (in Jungerl). They were never really
integrated into rdbms, but are there in the source tree:
rdbms_wsearch*.erl
They were written by Hans Nilsson, and use the Porter stemming
algorithm, and we actually use it in an internal web server at
Ericsson.
http://jungerl.cvs.sourceforge.net/jungerl/jungerl/lib/rdbms/src/
BR,
Ulf W
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:58 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
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> This isn't a critic of erlyweb, but rather a laundry list of things
> that I need to be able to "easily" do in order to port my app from
> Rails to erlyweb.
Why port it if it works?
> 1 - full text search. I have some recent experience with Sphinx
> http://www.sphinxsearch.com/. Sphinx is a good match for erlang since
> it runs as a nice stand-alone daemon and doesn't require the weight of
> installing a Java system like Lucene requires. Rails has good plug-
> ins and tutorials for using Sphinx. Erlang / erlyweb has nothing.
Erlyweb supports (at the moment) 3 DBMSs, one of which (mnesia) varies
vastly from the other two (Postgres and MySQL). I suppose you'd have
to find something for your DBMS.
> 2 - PayPal or Amazon or Google Payment. An erlang library for _any_
> payment gateway is needed.
Agreed
> 3 - Current tutorials. The API docs on erlyweb are ok, but we need
> real-world tutorials using the latest erlyweb.
I'm working on some sample code, and I hear someone else is writing a
tutorial. It's all very young at the moment.
> There are lots of little things, like good date and time pretty
> printing. Ruby does have tons of libraries. We need to identify the
> most needed ones for webapp dev.
Just identify the "little things" and people can get to work  Just
writing "tonnes of libraries" is hard without some direction. PayPal/
Amazon and date/time pretty-printing sound like good places to start.
This might help for date-formatting. It's a little verbose, but works:
format_date(calendar:universal_time()) -> "Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:52:52
GMT"
format_date({{_,_,_},{_,_,_}}=DateTime) ->
httpd_util:rfc1123_date(DateTime).
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 4:59 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
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> I don't know what the status is on ErlyWeb 0.7, but I would really
> really really love to see a config directory (a la Rails') where all
> the
> necessary site configuration could be placed (database connectivity,
> environment, production/testing/debug, routes - oh I'd love a routes
> configuration)
I've moved all of my configuration into a myapp.app file, and then I
start yaws in embedded mode with this information so that I don't need
a yaws.conf or any other configuration files. It simplifies starting
and changing configuration, and then everything is in one file.
As for routes, I know rails thinks that this is a configuration, but
it's not, it's business logic; it's deciding how your application will
behave. We already have a way to modify "routes" via
myapp_app_controller:hook/1. Maybe we need some syntactic sugar in
there, but otherwise I like it the way it is.
It could look like (with the understanding that this my not be
syntactically correct):
Ewc=do_ewc(A,fun(A1,[posts | Rest]) ->
{ewc,posts,index,[A,Rest]};
(A1,[users | Rest]) ->
{ewc,users,show,[A,Rest]};
(A1, [some_complicated_url | Rest]) ->
do_lots_of_processing(Rest);
(A1,[page,Page]) ->
{page,Page};
(A1,Other) ->
get_initial_ewc(A1)
end).
This would be pretty easy to write.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2007 7:34 pm |
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| dmitriid |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:23 am |
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David King wrote: Quote: Quote: I don't know what the status is on ErlyWeb 0.7, but I would really really really love to see a config directory (a la Rails') where all the necessary site configuration could be placed (database connectivity, environment, production/testing/debug, routes - oh I'd love a routes configuration) [/code] I've moved all of my configuration into a myapp.app file, and then I start yaws in embedded mode with this information so that I don't need a yaws.conf or any other configuration files. It simplifies starting and changing configuration, and then everything is in one file. [/code]
Quote: As for routes, I know rails thinks that this is a configuration, but it's not, it's business logic; it's deciding how your application will behave. We already have a way to modify "routes" via myapp_app_controller:hook/1. Maybe we need some syntactic sugar in there, but otherwise I like it the way it is. [/code]
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| dmitriid |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 10:30 am |
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> Just identify the "little things" and people can get to work Just
> writing "tonnes of libraries" is hard without some direction. PayPal/
> Amazon and date/time pretty-printing sound like good places to start.
>
>
- Image manipulation library (or a hook/driver/port into imagemagik or
Python Imaging Library)
- String manipulation library (or a hook into IBM's ICU perhaps)
These come up very frequently during web development. And a string
manipulation library would be a great help to Erlang in general
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| rsaccon |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:09 pm |
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Posts: 144
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On Dec 22, 8:22 am, "Dmitrii 'Mamut' Dimandt" <dmitr...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> David King wrote:
> >> I don't know what the status is on ErlyWeb 0.7, but I would really
> >> really really love to see a config directory (a la Rails') where all
> >> the
> >> necessary site configuration could be placed (database connectivity,
> >> environment, production/testing/debug, routes - oh I'd love a routes
> >> configuration)
>
> > I've moved all of my configuration into a myapp.app file, and then I
> > start yaws in embedded mode with this information so that I don't need
> > a yaws.conf or any other configuration files. It simplifies starting
> > and changing configuration, and then everything is in one file.
>
> embedded mode might no be suitable for production environment
>
why not ? What if it was called "power mode" ? Unless you have just a
minimal setup or you like to hack yaws, you have to run in embedded
mode or how else do you run other OTP servers withing the same VM ?
> > As for routes, I know rails thinks that this is a configuration, but
> > it's not, it's business logic; it's deciding how your application will
> > behave. We already have a way to modify "routes" via
> > myapp_app_controller:hook/1. Maybe we need some syntactic sugar in
> > there, but otherwise I like it the way it is.
>
> Yes, I thought about hook/1. Syntactic sugar would've been great for
> specifying routes.
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| rsaccon |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 1:19 pm |
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On Dec 22, 8:30 am, "Dmitrii 'Mamut' Dimandt" <dmitr...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> > Just identify the "little things" and people can get to work Just
> > writing "tonnes of libraries" is hard without some direction. PayPal/
> > Amazon and date/time pretty-printing sound like good places to start.
>
> - Image manipulation library (or a hook/driver/port into imagemagik or
> Python Imaging Library)
There are plenty of these, for gif there is a libgd wrapper in R12B,
there is erlycairo (cairo wrapper, PNG only, author: me) and there is
also an imagemagick wrapper at googlecode, I think it is called
something like erlmagic
> - String manipulation library (or a hook into IBM's ICU perhaps)
>
> These come up very frequently during web development. And a string
> manipulation library would be a great help to Erlang in general
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:47 pm |
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On Dec 22, 12:54 am, David King <dk...@ketralnis.com> wrote:
> > This isn't a critic of erlyweb, but rather a laundry list of things
> > that I need to be able to "easily" do in order to port my app from
> > Rails to erlyweb.
>
> Why port it if it works?
In short, because I'm having problems with Rails. And its not the
"its too slow" issues. Let me explain:
v1.0 of my web app, http://www.shellshadow.com can be rewritten in
just about anything and as I get ready to write v1.1 of the web app I
am rethinking my Rails position. v1.0 is so simple that a rewrite
isn't too time consuming.
So I am pissed at Rails...why?
Last week I had a real customer testing ShellShadow.
The user was getting errors connecting into the relay. It turns out
the relay server (written in C++) was behaving properly and wasn't
letting the user in since he had three user accounts registered to the
same email address.
My Rails migration which creates the "users" table has a very clear
constraint that the email field is unique. I expect the MySQL table to
be created with the correct constraint. Dumb me, I didn't test my
assumption.
I'm not sure that after 20 years as a programmer I want to use a
framework where basic "magic" features need to have test cases written
so I can be certain.
I have yet to dig around and find out why Rails allowed my users table
to be generated without the uniqueness constraint and I'm not sure I
want to.
I talk to many very smart and experienced developers using Rails. We
all commiserate on the same issues. This leads me to believe that its
not that I'm using Rails wrong or just don't get it. Its that I do
get it and I simply don't like it.
>
> > 1 - full text search. I have some recent experience with Sphinx
> >http://www.sphinxsearch.com/. Sphinx is a good match for erlang since
> > it runs as a nice stand-alone daemon and doesn't require the weight of
> > installing a Java system like Lucene requires. Rails has good plug-
> > ins and tutorials for using Sphinx. Erlang / erlyweb has nothing.
>
> Erlyweb supports (at the moment) 3 DBMSs, one of which (mnesia) varies
> vastly from the other two (Postgres and MySQL). I suppose you'd have
> to find something for your DBMS.
>
I probably wasn't clear enough. A system like Sphinx would work very
well with an erlang web app which uses MySQL or Postgres. We just
need a decent erlang interface to Sphinx. Sphinx handles the
interaction with MySQL or Postgres. Mnesia is another story.
>
>
> This might help for date-formatting. It's a little verbose, but works:
>
> format_date(calendar:universal_time()) -> "Sat, 22 Dec 2007 00:52:52
> GMT"
>
> format_date({{_,_,_},{_,_,_}}=DateTime) ->
> httpd_util:rfc1123_date(DateTime).
thanks for the function...
Jon
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| Guest |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 2:50 pm |
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On Dec 22, 3:33 am, "Yariv Sadan" <yarivsa...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > 2 - PayPal or Amazon or Google Payment. An erlang library for _any_
> > > payment gateway is needed.
>
> > Agreed
>
> did you look athttp://code.google.com/p/erlawys/?
Thanks...After looking at this google code project I realized why my
previous google searches for payment gateways in erlang turned up
nothing: the project owner does not use the word "payment" anywhere
on the project page, just the "FPS" abbreviation ;(.
Jon
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2007 6:12 pm |
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Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
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>> a yaws.conf or any other configuration files. It simplifies starting
>> and changing configuration, and then everything is in one file.
> embedded mode might no be suitable for production environment
Why? As far as I can tell, it runs the same code-path in launching it
>> As for routes [...] Maybe we need some syntactic sugar in
>> there, but otherwise I like it the way it is.
> Yes, I thought about hook/1. Syntactic sugar would've been great for
> specifying routes.
Well, the function I showed would be pretty easy to write
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