| Author |
Message |
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| Guest |
 Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 8:43 am |
 |
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Guest
|
Hi,
I've seen a few ErlTL enhancement proposals and I'd like to bring them
all together and add some of my ideas to the mix so hopefully we can
end up with an improved ErlTL. I think the current ErlTL is a good
start but after using it for a while I saw some areas where it can use
some refinement. Specifically, I think ErlTL could use new syntax for
the following expressions: if, case, and map. Below is an example
showing the use of the current and proposed syntax (for 'if' and
'map'):
current:
<%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
album: <% Album %><br/>
<% if ShowSongs ->
songs(S);
true ->
[]
end %>
<%@ songs(Songs) %>
songs: <br/>
<% [song(S) || S <- Songs] %>
<%@ song(Song) %>
song: <% Song %><br/>
Improved:
<%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
album: <% Album %><br/>
<et:if expr="ShowSongs">
songs:<br/>
<et:map expr="S <- Songs">
song: <% S %><br/>
</et:map>
</et:if>
In more detaul, the new syntax would be:
if:
<et:if expr="Expr">
<et:elseif expr="Expr"> (optional)
<et:else> (optional)
</et:if>
case:
<et:switch expr="Expr">
<et:case expr="Expr">
stuff...
</et:case>
<et:case expr="Expr">
stuf..
</et:case>
<et:default> (optional)
stuff...
</et:default>
</et:switch>
map:
<et:map expr="Elem <- List, Elem =/= foo">stuff <% Elem %></et:map>
This syntax is pretty self explanatory. All three constructs would be
translated to their Erlang equivalents by the ErlTL parser.
I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure that
this is the ideal syntax so I'll be happy to hear some other
suggestions.
Thanks,
Yariv
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 3:10 pm |
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Guest
|
I think its a good improvement. Only proposal I can make is to get rid
of the expr="" and just put it in quotes.
For example:
<%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
album: <% Album %><br/>
<et:if "ShowSongs">
songs:<br/>
<et:map "S <- Songs">
song: <% S %><br/>
</et:map>
</et:if>
If you are at improving ErlTL I would like to see some whitespace
handling. As a designer I have a fetish for well looking html sources
and whats spit out right now doesn |
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| ketralnis |
| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 6:34 pm |
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User
Joined: 20 Jul 2007
Posts: 151
Location: San Francisco, CA
|
> <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
> album: <% Album %><br/>
> <et:if "ShowSongs">
> songs:<br/>
> <et:map "S <- Songs">
> song: <% S %><br/>
> </et:map>
> </et:if>
Yuck. If you're needing to do that, why not just pass Songs as an
empty iolist, and have it be its own component?
Isn't the point of having a component system to be able to do this is
a real language (Erlang) instead of some underpowered sub-language? As
someone whose used Struts 2, which uses templates like this one, I can
tell you that it's going down a bad path.
>
>
> If you are at improving ErlTL I would like to see some whitespace
> handling. As a designer I have a fetish for well looking html sources
> and whats spit out right now doesn |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:39 pm |
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Guest
|
On Jan 10, 2008 10:33 AM, David King <dking@ketralnis.com> wrote:
>
> > <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
> > album: <% Album %><br/>
> > <et:if "ShowSongs">
> > songs:<br/>
> > <et:map "S <- Songs">
> > song: <% S %><br/>
> > </et:map>
> > </et:if>
>
> Yuck. If you're needing to do that, why not just pass Songs as an
> empty iolist, and have it be its own component?
Doing this would require even more coding, and it would be less
readable because the template logic would be spread across different
files. Also, components are overkill because I'm creating pure view
logic and I don't need controllers.
>
> Isn't the point of having a component system to be able to do this is
> a real language (Erlang) instead of some underpowered sub-language? As
> someone whose used Struts 2, which uses templates like this one, I can
> tell you that it's going down a bad path.
It's not really about substituting Erlang for a lesser language. The
main problem with ErlTL is that it essentially has 2 modes: Erlang
mode and static data mode. You can go from static data mode to Erlang
mode using the <% %> notation, but you can't go from Erlang mode to
static data mode in the same function -- you have to declare a new
function and call it from within the <% %> block. I think it's
inconvenient in this example to create a new function just to write
"song: <% S %><br/>".
>
>
> >
> >
> > If you are at improving ErlTL I would like to see some whitespace
> > handling. As a designer I have a fetish for well looking html sources
> > and whats spit out right now doesn |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:48 pm |
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Guest
|
This is what I am doing with blogrolls, which are related to
categories:
sidebar_controller.erl:
category(A, Category_id) ->
[{ewc, category, [A]}, {ewc, blogroll, [A, Category_id]}].
blogroll_controller.erl:
index(A, Category_id) ->
Blogs = blogroll:find({category_id,'=',Category_id},{order_by,
[{position, asc}]}),
[{ewc, blogroll, blog, [A, Blog]} || Blog <- Blogs].
blog(A, Blog) ->
[{data, blogroll:url(Blog)}, {data, blogroll:title(Blog)}].
And now the blogroll_view.et... I could only figure out this way:
<%@ index(Blog) %>
<% [case Blog of
[] -> "";
Blog -> ["<h4>Blogroll</h4>\n<ul>\n", Blog, "</ul>"] end] %>
<%@ blog([Url, Title]) %>
<li><a href="<% Url %>"><% Title %></a></li>
The point is, that if there are no blogs in the roll for a certain
category nothing should be shown at all (heading and empty unordered
list). If you can tell me a way doing this in the controller I have
nothing against keeping ErtTL the way it is, just do something about
the whitespace and I would be fine with it.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Thu Jan 10, 2008 7:53 pm |
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Guest
|
Forgot the last sentence:
Other than that, the proposed syntax looks good to me and is way more
designer friendly than the mud I figured out for doing it.
On 10 Jan., 20:47, maddiin <madd...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> This is what I am doing with blogrolls, which are related to
> categories:
>
> sidebar_controller.erl:
>
> category(A, Category_id) ->
> [{ewc, category, [A]}, {ewc, blogroll, [A, Category_id]}].
>
> blogroll_controller.erl:
>
> index(A, Category_id) ->
> Blogs = blogroll:find({category_id,'=',Category_id},{order_by,
> [{position, asc}]}),
> [{ewc, blogroll, blog, [A, Blog]} || Blog <- Blogs].
>
> blog(A, Blog) ->
> [{data, blogroll:url(Blog)}, {data, blogroll:title(Blog)}].
>
> And now the blogroll_view.et... I could only figure out this way:
>
> <%@ index(Blog) %>
> <% [case Blog of
> [] -> "";
> Blog -> ["<h4>Blogroll</h4>\n<ul>\n", Blog, "</ul>"] end] %>
>
> <%@ blog([Url, Title]) %>
> <li><a href="<% Url %>"><% Title %></a></li>
>
> The point is, that if there are no blogs in the roll for a certain
> category nothing should be shown at all (heading and empty unordered
> list). If you can tell me a way doing this in the controller I have
> nothing against keeping ErtTL the way it is, just do something about
> the whitespace and I would be fine with it.
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| dmitriid |
| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 8:11 am |
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User
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 213
|
Yariv Sadan wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've seen a few ErlTL enhancement proposals and I'd like to bring them
> all together and add some of my ideas to the mix so hopefully we can
> end up with an improved ErlTL. I think the current ErlTL is a good
> start but after using it for a while I saw some areas where it can use
> some refinement. Specifically, I think ErlTL could use new syntax for
> the following expressions: if, case, and map. Below is an example
> showing the use of the current and proposed syntax (for 'if' and
> 'map'):
>
> current:
>
> <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
> album: <% Album %><br/>
> <% if ShowSongs ->
> songs(S);
> true ->
> []
> end %>
>
> <%@ songs(Songs) %>
> songs: <br/>
> <% [song(S) || S <- Songs] %>
>
> <%@ song(Song) %>
> song: <% Song %><br/>
>
>
> Improved:
>
> <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
> album: <% Album %><br/>
> <et:if expr="ShowSongs">
> songs:<br/>
> <et:map expr="S <- Songs">
> song: <% S %><br/>
> </et:map>
> </et:if>
>
> In more detaul, the new syntax would be:
>
> if:
>
> <et:if expr="Expr">
> <et:elseif expr="Expr"> (optional)
> <et:else> (optional)
> </et:if>
>
> case:
>
> <et:switch expr="Expr">
> <et:case expr="Expr">
> stuff...
> </et:case>
> <et:case expr="Expr">
> stuf..
> </et:case>
> <et:default> (optional)
> stuff...
> </et:default>
> </et:switch>
>
>
> map:
>
> <et:map expr="Elem <- List, Elem =/= foo">stuff <% Elem %></et:map>
>
>
> This syntax is pretty self explanatory. All three constructs would be
> translated to their Erlang equivalents by the ErlTL parser.
>
> I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure that
> this is the ideal syntax so I'll be happy to hear some other
> suggestions.
>
>
I like it 
I presume that the old way of doing things will still be available?
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:06 pm |
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Guest
|
Hi All,
I emailed Yariv about an enhancement that I ported over from openacs's
templating system. It's essentially about how you display variables in
a safe consistent concise way. e.g.
## BEFORE
<%@ album({Title, Artist, Songs})
%>
Title: <b><% Title %></
b><br>
Artist: <b><% Artist %></
b><br>
Songs:
<br>
<table>
<% [song(Number, Name) || {Number, Name} <- Songs]
%>
</table>
can now be written as:
## AFTER
<%@ album({Title, Artist, Songs})
%>
Title: <b><@Title@</
b><br>
Artist: <b><@Artist@></
b><br>
Songs:
<br>
<table>
<% [song(Number, Name) || {Number, Name} <- Songs] %>
Essentially any variable declared as as @Var;opt1,opt2@ is changed to <
% render_val(Var,[opt1,opt2]) %> and then follows normal ertl
processing
ertl:render_val will
1) Translate strings,numbers,binary etc into output types suitable for
display automatically - no doing integer_to_string or any of that sort
2) Safer - having special syntax means that Ithe contents of the var
can be cleaned (you can off course turn off this option (see below).
Openacs was awesome at how much it did for you in terms of security -
imagine if the Title contained malicious html tags/script code?
## How is this implemented?
Essentially any variable declared as as @Var;opt1,opt2@ is changed to <
% render_val(Var,[opt1,opt2]) %> and then follows normal ertl
processing
I have already implemented some options. You can currently
do:
<B>@Title@</B> prints out a safe version of the Title
Variable
Options already
supported:
<B>@Title;noquote@</B> - don't quote the
string
<B>@Title;urlescape@</B> - escape the string for using in HREF
urls
<B>@Title;raw@</B> - print out the raw term - so you can print out
raw represenations of the vars
Extending options can be done as
follows
<B>@Title;format,enUK@</B> - will require you to
implement
ertl: render_val(Val,[format,Locale]) -
>
in the ertl code.
### Where is the code?
email me or yariv. We both have copy. I can alternative post it here
if ok by the group.
Hafeez
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jan 11, 2008 3:25 pm |
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Guest
|
Hi Yariv,
I see the et:if tag as a starting point - all templating systems end
up like the others. Check the tags that openacs ended up with.
http://openacs.org/doc/acs-templating/tagref/
What I really liked though was the way the openacs tag system was
implemented - you could plug in arbitrary tags. Essentially you
implemented a function in tcl
proc process_tag {tag name attribs txt} {
}
register tag "<sometag>"
this allows some very clever extensions rather then creating some
hardcoded syntax. I am sure with smerl you appreciate the meta
trickery stuff and how wickedly cool it is.
Hafeez
On Jan 11, 7:11 |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:47 am |
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Guest
|
> I like it
>
> I presume that the old way of doing things will still be available?
of course
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 5:49 am |
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Guest
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Being able to plug in tags will be very useful for some applications,
e.g. if you want to create an FBML clone in Erlang
On Jan 11, 2008 7:23 AM, macrocreation <hafeez.bana@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Yariv,
>
> I see the et:if tag as a starting point - all templating systems end
> up like the others. Check the tags that openacs ended up with.
>
> http://openacs.org/doc/acs-templating/tagref/
>
> What I really liked though was the way the openacs tag system was
> implemented - you could plug in arbitrary tags. Essentially you
> implemented a function in tcl
>
> proc process_tag {tag name attribs txt} {
>
> }
> register tag "<sometag>"
>
> this allows some very clever extensions rather then creating some
> hardcoded syntax. I am sure with smerl you appreciate the meta
> trickery stuff and how wickedly cool it is.
>
> Hafeez
>
> On Jan 11, 7:11pm, "Dmitrii 'Mamut' Dimandt" <dmitr...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Yariv Sadan wrote:
> > > Hi,
> >
> > > I've seen a few ErlTL enhancement proposals and I'd like to bring them
> > > all together and add some of my ideas to the mix so hopefully we can
> > > end up with an improved ErlTL. I think the current ErlTL is a good
> > > start but after using it for a while I saw some areas where it can use
> > > some refinement. Specifically, I think ErlTL could use new syntax for
> > > the following expressions: if, case, and map. Below is an example
> > > showing the use of the current and proposed syntax (for 'if' and
> > > 'map'):
> >
> > > current:
> >
> > > <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
> > > album: <% Album %><br/>
> > > <% if ShowSongs ->
> > > songs(S);
> > > true ->
> > > []
> > > end %>
> >
> > > <%@ songs(Songs) %>
> > > songs: <br/>
> > > <% [song(S) || S <- Songs] %>
> >
> > > <%@ song(Song) %>
> > > song: <% Song %><br/>
> >
> > > Improved:
> >
> > > <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
> > > album: <% Album %><br/>
> > > <et:if expr="ShowSongs">
> > > songs:<br/>
> > > <et:map expr="S <- Songs">
> > > song: <% S %><br/>
> > > </et:map>
> > > </et:if>
> >
> > > In more detaul, the new syntax would be:
> >
> > > if:
> >
> > > <et:if expr="Expr">
> > > <et:elseif expr="Expr"> (optional)
> > > <et:else> (optional)
> > > </et:if>
> >
> > > case:
> >
> > > <et:switch expr="Expr">
> > > <et:case expr="Expr">
> > > stuff...
> > > </et:case>
> > > <et:case expr="Expr">
> > > stuf..
> > > </et:case>
> > > <et:default> (optional)
> > > stuff...
> > > </et:default>
> > > </et:switch>
> >
> > > map:
> >
> > > <et:map expr="Elem <- List, Elem =/= foo">stuff <% Elem %></et:map>
> >
> > > This syntax is pretty self explanatory. All three constructs would be
> > > translated to their Erlang equivalents by the ErlTL parser.
> >
> > > I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure that
> > > this is the ideal syntax so I'll be happy to hear some other
> > > suggestions.
> >
> > I like it
> >
> > I presume that the old way of doing things will still be available?
> >
>
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 6:01 am |
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Guest
|
I hope this is not OT, but talking about templates, I must say the
following:
I have used a *lot* of templating systems over the years and the only
one that stood out was that of Tapestry (a Java-based web framework.)
So, what can we learn from that system? Well, first of all, we ditch
the slow and verbose language they use  After that, we should
acknowledge that they:
1. Do *not* add any "special tags" but instead
2. Add *special attributes* of existing HTML tags, and
3. Add a special attribute for HTML tags that should *only* exist
during visual editing and *not* during (dynamic) use.
I think - humbly, of course - that this decision is genius. To enable
those artsy fartsy guys to do their thing (in DreamWeaver or what have
you) without strange text output (#1 + #2) and with reasonable sample
data to fill in the template parameters (#3). Ok, the document would
not be valid XHTML, but what the heck, you win some and you lose
some
/David
On Jan 16, 2008, at 12:48 AM, Yariv Sadan wrote:
>
> Being able to plug in tags will be very useful for some applications,
> e.g. if you want to create an FBML clone in Erlang
>
> On Jan 11, 2008 7:23 AM, macrocreation <hafeez.bana@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Yariv,
>>
>> I see the et:if tag as a starting point - all templating systems end
>> up like the others. Check the tags that openacs ended up with.
>>
>> http://openacs.org/doc/acs-templating/tagref/
>>
>> What I really liked though was the way the openacs tag system was
>> implemented - you could plug in arbitrary tags. Essentially you
>> implemented a function in tcl
>>
>> proc process_tag {tag name attribs txt} {
>>
>> }
>> register tag "<sometag>"
>>
>> this allows some very clever extensions rather then creating some
>> hardcoded syntax. I am sure with smerl you appreciate the meta
>> trickery stuff and how wickedly cool it is.
>>
>> Hafeez
>>
>> On Jan 11, 7:11pm, "Dmitrii 'Mamut' Dimandt" <dmitr...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yariv Sadan wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>> I've seen a few ErlTL enhancement proposals and I'd like to bring
>>>> them
>>>> all together and add some of my ideas to the mix so hopefully we
>>>> can
>>>> end up with an improved ErlTL. I think the current ErlTL is a good
>>>> start but after using it for a while I saw some areas where it
>>>> can use
>>>> some refinement. Specifically, I think ErlTL could use new syntax
>>>> for
>>>> the following expressions: if, case, and map. Below is an example
>>>> showing the use of the current and proposed syntax (for 'if' and
>>>> 'map'):
>>>
>>>> current:
>>>
>>>> <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
>>>> album: <% Album %><br/>
>>>> <% if ShowSongs ->
>>>> songs(S);
>>>> true ->
>>>> []
>>>> end %>
>>>
>>>> <%@ songs(Songs) %>
>>>> songs: <br/>
>>>> <% [song(S) || S <- Songs] %>
>>>
>>>> <%@ song(Song) %>
>>>> song: <% Song %><br/>
>>>
>>>> Improved:
>>>
>>>> <%@ index(Album, Songs, ShowSongs) %>
>>>> album: <% Album %><br/>
>>>> <et:if expr="ShowSongs">
>>>> songs:<br/>
>>>> <et:map expr="S <- Songs">
>>>> song: <% S %><br/>
>>>> </et:map>
>>>> </et:if>
>>>
>>>> In more detaul, the new syntax would be:
>>>
>>>> if:
>>>
>>>> <et:if expr="Expr">
>>>> <et:elseif expr="Expr"> (optional)
>>>> <et:else> (optional)
>>>> </et:if>
>>>
>>>> case:
>>>
>>>> <et:switch expr="Expr">
>>>> <et:case expr="Expr">
>>>> stuff...
>>>> </et:case>
>>>> <et:case expr="Expr">
>>>> stuf..
>>>> </et:case>
>>>> <et:default> (optional)
>>>> stuff...
>>>> </et:default>
>>>> </et:switch>
>>>
>>>> map:
>>>
>>>> <et:map expr="Elem <- List, Elem =/= foo">stuff <% Elem %></et:map>
>>>
>>>> This syntax is pretty self explanatory. All three constructs
>>>> would be
>>>> translated to their Erlang equivalents by the ErlTL parser.
>>>
>>>> I think this is a step in the right direction, but I'm not sure
>>>> that
>>>> this is the ideal syntax so I'll be happy to hear some other
>>>> suggestions.
>>>
>>> I like it
>>>
>>> I presume that the old way of doing things will still be available?
>>>
>>
>
> >
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 11:00 am |
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Guest
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David Bergman wrote:
> I hope this is not OT, but talking about templates, I must say the
> following:
>
> I have used a *lot* of templating systems over the years and the only
> one that stood out was that of Tapestry (a Java-based web framework.)
> So, what can we learn from that system? Well, first of all, we ditch
> the slow and verbose language they use After that, we should
> acknowledge that they:
>
Do you have a simple example? It sounds interesting, especially if, as
you say, you can let your graphic/layout designer use the "standard"
tools they are use to using.
Jeff.
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| dmitriid |
| Posted: Wed Jan 16, 2008 12:09 pm |
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Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Posts: 213
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| Posted: Thu Jan 17, 2008 6:50 am |
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Wow, that looks cool, and I haven't known about it. It would be pretty
easy to integrate this into ErlyWeb, actually. I'm not sure yet if I
prefer it to an enhanced ErlTL, but I all for giving developers the
choice of which one they should use.
On Jan 16, 2008 4:09 AM, Dmitrii 'Mamut' Dimandt <dmitriid@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Yariv Sadan wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've seen a few ErlTL enhancement proposals
> There's also ErlyDTL,
> http://www.rsaccon.com/2008/01/erlydtl-django-template-language-in.html
>
>
> >
>
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